I was asked this question recently:
Question:
Would it be permissible to protest outside of churches that evolution be taught in Sunday school?
Your Answer:
Absolutely brilliant! I was laughing when I read this question.
Ask yourself this:
1. Should a church stand outside a house picketing an interracial couple?
2. Should a church picket a wine store, since it can lead to alcoholism and abuse?
3. Should a church picket a therapist who tries to help someone using psychological methods and medicine, rather than solely using prayer?
4. Should a church picket a mall because it has Santa there during Christmas?
5. Should a church picket other churches for teaching UNPROVABLE doctrines that don't align with their own?
If Christians aren't willing to picket the Mormons, Jews, or Catholics then they have no right protesting at schools. After all, school is just showing the current consensus of the scientific community.
The other churches are saying that your entire basis of faith is wrong, and that your god and your beliefs are all lies.
I guess in this case there IS honor among thieves.
Sunday, February 3, 2008
QUESTION: Are Atheists willing to flirt with the idea of God existing?
Question
Are you Atheists willing to flirt with the idea that The Almighty does exist ?
Your Answer:
Great question!
First, understand that the reason millions and millions of people believe in religion (and thus believe in a god) is because religion WAS SCIENCE to our ancestors. They had no way to explain the unexplainable, so they did the best they could and came up with religion. Well, religions to be exact.
But, to answer your question: Yes, I am completely willing to accept the idea of a god. I think to say that there is NO chance of there being a god is the same as saying there is no chance there ISN'T a god. So far our level of scientific advancement doesn't lend itself to a god-created universe, but we are honestly infants when it comes to really understanding the universe. Once science and belief in god learn to work hand-in-hand, instead of at cross purposes (like now) we will have more answers.
Now my question is: Would you be willing to accept that there was no god if we reached a point where it was absolutely provable that the universe was not created by a higher being?
Are you Atheists willing to flirt with the idea that The Almighty does exist ?
| Quote: |
I was just wondering. I mean millions upon people in this world can't be wrong. For no reason. How can a mass number of human beings believe in a deity, they have never seen you ask ? Through internal spirituality. Having a change of heart, mind, soul. A deep resolve and commitment. With Revelations, divine intervention. While realizing that you are moving in the Spirit. And not in the flesh, or by any other logical action or intent. Only a purpose. Many do question your superficial state of mind. Because that is what it is. Without reason. And for every action there is a reaction. Nothing cannot create something. So are you willing to flirt with the idea that The Almighty does exist ? Best answer wins. ~~~ =) |
Your Answer:
Great question!
First, understand that the reason millions and millions of people believe in religion (and thus believe in a god) is because religion WAS SCIENCE to our ancestors. They had no way to explain the unexplainable, so they did the best they could and came up with religion. Well, religions to be exact.
But, to answer your question: Yes, I am completely willing to accept the idea of a god. I think to say that there is NO chance of there being a god is the same as saying there is no chance there ISN'T a god. So far our level of scientific advancement doesn't lend itself to a god-created universe, but we are honestly infants when it comes to really understanding the universe. Once science and belief in god learn to work hand-in-hand, instead of at cross purposes (like now) we will have more answers.
Now my question is: Would you be willing to accept that there was no god if we reached a point where it was absolutely provable that the universe was not created by a higher being?
QUESTION: What if Jesus and Satan were brothers?
This was submitted to me on Yahoo! Answers by Going Crazy.
Would the world be better off if Satan and Jesus where brothers sitting on both sides of Gods throne?
Wow, I absolutely LOVE this question. Very interesting though. It may take me a few days to come up with a fully worked-through answer, since I've never considered this before, but here goes my first shot.
First I guess you would have to consider the possibility that maybe they ARE brothers. Let's take away the words in the bible saying about Jesus and Satan, and instead look at the actions.
God created Lucifer.
God created Jesus.
It's safe to assume that he created them out of the same 'material'. That he used the same process. So therefore Jesus and Lucifer would then have to be brothers, since they have the same father and were created in the same fashion. The fact that God CHOSE one of his creations to be take the place of his son (the same way he chose one of his creations to be the Holy Spirit) doesn't change the simple fact that they have the same father.
Jesus performed miracles.
Satan performed miracles.
No need to recap the list of Jesus miracles, so we'll look into Satan's. In the Garden of Eden he caused a serpent to speak in a way for humans to understand. He brought Jesus to a plane that allowed him to view the entire world at once. He performed many 'miracles' during the test of Job. He is even able to affect the minds and spirits of humans to corrupt their will.
So you could say that they are basically two sides of the same coin. They are two brothers with exceptionally different abilities and talents, but still of the same type. They each perform their own types of supernatural occurrences.
Satan questioned God.
Jesus questioned God.
The fact that at some point both of God's sons questioned him showed another similarity they have. Even the most opposite of siblings can share moments of total agreement.
So in answer to your question: I think that (were they to exist), Jesus and Satan would be brothers. They are the balancing forces for each other. God created a universe that needs to find balance - equilibrium. So if you didn't have Satan, you wouldn't need Jesus. If you didn't have Jesus, Satan would run rampant. They are the balancing forces. One light, one dark. One for God's will, one against it. They need each other.
One might also say that they ARE sitting on either side of God's throne. If God's throne is the universe, then the right side would be heaven, and the left side would be hell.
Of course, that's if they exist. ;)
Great question!
Would the world be better off if Satan and Jesus where brothers sitting on both sides of Gods throne?
Wow, I absolutely LOVE this question. Very interesting though. It may take me a few days to come up with a fully worked-through answer, since I've never considered this before, but here goes my first shot.
First I guess you would have to consider the possibility that maybe they ARE brothers. Let's take away the words in the bible saying about Jesus and Satan, and instead look at the actions.
God created Lucifer.
God created Jesus.
It's safe to assume that he created them out of the same 'material'. That he used the same process. So therefore Jesus and Lucifer would then have to be brothers, since they have the same father and were created in the same fashion. The fact that God CHOSE one of his creations to be take the place of his son (the same way he chose one of his creations to be the Holy Spirit) doesn't change the simple fact that they have the same father.
Jesus performed miracles.
Satan performed miracles.
No need to recap the list of Jesus miracles, so we'll look into Satan's. In the Garden of Eden he caused a serpent to speak in a way for humans to understand. He brought Jesus to a plane that allowed him to view the entire world at once. He performed many 'miracles' during the test of Job. He is even able to affect the minds and spirits of humans to corrupt their will.
So you could say that they are basically two sides of the same coin. They are two brothers with exceptionally different abilities and talents, but still of the same type. They each perform their own types of supernatural occurrences.
Satan questioned God.
Jesus questioned God.
The fact that at some point both of God's sons questioned him showed another similarity they have. Even the most opposite of siblings can share moments of total agreement.
So in answer to your question: I think that (were they to exist), Jesus and Satan would be brothers. They are the balancing forces for each other. God created a universe that needs to find balance - equilibrium. So if you didn't have Satan, you wouldn't need Jesus. If you didn't have Jesus, Satan would run rampant. They are the balancing forces. One light, one dark. One for God's will, one against it. They need each other.
One might also say that they ARE sitting on either side of God's throne. If God's throne is the universe, then the right side would be heaven, and the left side would be hell.
Of course, that's if they exist. ;)
Great question!
MySpace no place for Atheists
LINK
Here's a excerpt from the article:
I find this absolutely ridiculous. Not just that, it is insane, hypocritical, pandering.
So you have a website that allows people to post about their lives. Sets up no rules or guidelines saying atheism isn't allowed. Then deletes all the pages that apply to something Tom disagrees with.
And then you promise to protect the very people that got it deleted!!!!!
This sort of militant, intolerant Christianity infuriates me. The internet is a place where free exchange of ideas and beliefs should be encouraged. Why would you suppress a group simply because they don't believe in a god? How can so many people be so intolerant that they don't even want someone with different beliefs on a free social networking site?
I wonder why none of the Muslim pages were deleted? I wonder why none of the Jewish pages, Catholic pages, Scientologist pages, or millions of other ridiculous, pointless pages were deleted? Why target these specific individuals?
"If we can't make them join us, we'll destroy them." I'm starting to see where ol' L. Ron got the origins of Scientology.
Once again Christianity shows itself to be a religion of intolerance and hate.
Here's a excerpt from the article:
| Quote: |
Early this month, MySpace again deleted the Atheist and Agnostic Group (35,000 members). This deletion, due largely to complaints from people who find atheism offensive, marks the second time MySpace has canceled the group since November 2007. “MySpace refuses to undelete the group, although it never violated any terms of service,” said Bryan Pesta, Ph.D., the group’s moderator. “When the largest Christian group was hacked, MySpace’s Founder, Tom Anderson, personally restored the group, and promised to protect it from future deletions.” |
I find this absolutely ridiculous. Not just that, it is insane, hypocritical, pandering.
So you have a website that allows people to post about their lives. Sets up no rules or guidelines saying atheism isn't allowed. Then deletes all the pages that apply to something Tom disagrees with.
And then you promise to protect the very people that got it deleted!!!!!
This sort of militant, intolerant Christianity infuriates me. The internet is a place where free exchange of ideas and beliefs should be encouraged. Why would you suppress a group simply because they don't believe in a god? How can so many people be so intolerant that they don't even want someone with different beliefs on a free social networking site?
I wonder why none of the Muslim pages were deleted? I wonder why none of the Jewish pages, Catholic pages, Scientologist pages, or millions of other ridiculous, pointless pages were deleted? Why target these specific individuals?
"If we can't make them join us, we'll destroy them." I'm starting to see where ol' L. Ron got the origins of Scientology.
Once again Christianity shows itself to be a religion of intolerance and hate.
Catholic mother terrorizes Atheist son
LINK
Here is a transcription of their conversation:
Mother: You're an atheist. Give me a fucking break Michael. Alright, you know what? We need to start going to church every week, I'd have it with this.
Michael: I don't believe in God.
Mother: Bullshit. You got yourself confirmed. And you said to the bishop!
Michael: Yeah, a lot can happen, you can think.
Mother: Oh a lot can happen! All of the sudden you can just quit believing in God!?!?
Michael: Yeah
Mother: All of a sudden! There is no God!
Michael: Yeah.
Mother: Well let me tell you, you want to know there is no god!! Then you're gonna get absolutely nothing!! NOTHING FOR CHRISTMAS!! CAUSE THAT'S WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT!!! IT'S JESUS CHRIST!!!
Michael: OK!
Mother: NO! IT'S NOT OK MICHAEL!! It is not ok!
-----------------------
Okay, first off I realize that everyone is immediately ready to pull out the claws and shred the mother. Before doing that, let's give her a little break. To her she has just seen the equivalent of her kid getting hit by a car. I remember when I was extremely christian and I was SO heartbroken by my sister saying she was an atheist. It's perfectly understandable that she would feel torn up, thinking that her son - the one she loves like a mother should - is now condemned to eternal torture and damnation.
You can see how this would be heartbreaking for her. Her approach was deplorable, and her language was vicious and mean. But it was the attack of a woman scared to death who has had her rug pulled out from under her.
Imagine this: You are an atheist. You have spent your entire life teaching their children to respect truth, research, honesty, and free-thought. Then your child comes home one day and tells you that he has joined a cult. He has given all of his possessions to this cult, and he will no longer be able to study science of any sort, as it is an abomination to whatever new god he is following.
No matter what you think of her religion, this is in essence what happened to her.
So she was rude, inconsiderate, closed-minded, and handled the situation in absolutely the WORST way possible.
But can you really blame her?
Now with that being said... "NOTHING FOR CHRISTMAS!! CAUSE THAT'S WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT!!! IT'S JESUS CHRIST!!!" - Are you fucking serious?!
That made me laugh so hard. I've often said "What are they going to do, take away Christmas?" I never thought anyone would really do it!
I wonder how Santa will feel knowing that she is taking away his holiday?
Here is a transcription of their conversation:
Mother: You're an atheist. Give me a fucking break Michael. Alright, you know what? We need to start going to church every week, I'd have it with this.
Michael: I don't believe in God.
Mother: Bullshit. You got yourself confirmed. And you said to the bishop!
Michael: Yeah, a lot can happen, you can think.
Mother: Oh a lot can happen! All of the sudden you can just quit believing in God!?!?
Michael: Yeah
Mother: All of a sudden! There is no God!
Michael: Yeah.
Mother: Well let me tell you, you want to know there is no god!!
Michael: OK!
Mother: NO! IT'S NOT OK MICHAEL!!
-----------------------
Okay, first off I realize that everyone is immediately ready to pull out the claws and shred the mother. Before doing that, let's give her a little break. To her she has just seen the equivalent of her kid getting hit by a car. I remember when I was extremely christian and I was SO heartbroken by my sister saying she was an atheist. It's perfectly understandable that she would feel torn up, thinking that her son - the one she loves like a mother should - is now condemned to eternal torture and damnation.
You can see how this would be heartbreaking for her. Her approach was deplorable, and her language was vicious and mean. But it was the attack of a woman scared to death who has had her rug pulled out from under her.
Imagine this: You are an atheist. You have spent your entire life teaching their children to respect truth, research, honesty, and free-thought. Then your child comes home one day and tells you that he has joined a cult. He has given all of his possessions to this cult, and he will no longer be able to study science of any sort, as it is an abomination to whatever new god he is following.
No matter what you think of her religion, this is in essence what happened to her.
So she was rude, inconsiderate, closed-minded, and handled the situation in absolutely the WORST way possible.
But can you really blame her?
Now with that being said... "NOTHING FOR CHRISTMAS!! CAUSE THAT'S WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT!!! IT'S JESUS CHRIST!!!" - Are you fucking serious?!
That made me laugh so hard. I've often said "What are they going to do, take away Christmas?" I never thought anyone would really do it!I wonder how Santa will feel knowing that she is taking away his holiday?
Einstein was not Christian. Hitler was.
(Come visit at Complaint Zone.org!)
Okay, it seems like one of the first things I seem to get when discussing religion with people is "Einstein was Christian. Do you think you are smarter than him?" Just because someone uses the word "God", does not mean that they are a Christian.
This is what is called "Quote Mining." That is when someone digs through random quotes, pulls them out of context, and says "See, they believe what I say they believe!" It's silly, juvenile, and the exact opposite of true research.
Famous misunderstood Einstein quotes:
"I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
"God is subtle but he is not malicious."
Okay, with the two quotes above it is easy to see how the uninformed and the unread could easily think that he was a Christian. But, as most of us non-Christians have found, the average fundamental Christian is practically a pro of pulling quotations out of context. Here are a few more quotes that show the true depth of Einstein's beliefs:
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein who had sent Einstein a cablegram demanding "Do you believe in God?"
Make everything as simple as possible but not simpler. (*This is also known as Occum's Razor, which will get a topic all its own.)
-- Albert Einstein (attributed: source unknown)
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)
I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion.
-- Albert Einstein (attributed: source unknown)
Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray. Source: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It
I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet.
-- Albert Einstein, letter, 1954
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
So, I hope this clears some stuff up. It's easy to see that he may possibly have been Agnostic. Meaning that he believed it was POSSIBLE that there was a God, but also that it was possible there was not. But he was by NO MEANS a Christian, or believed that Christ was the Son of God.
Which brings us to the most important thing we can take from this: Why do many religious fanatics feel that science and faith in a god are two concepts completely unable to coexist? Science should be embraced as the path to god, not the path away. If you are (like me) completely breathless and in awe of the magnitude of the universe, then you may also (like me) believe that there is a god. And everything you read, study, and learn from the next advance in science only reassures that belief.
But religion, for all its benefits, tends to be ridiculous. It tends to preach ignoring the scientific for the mystic. It tells you that quantum physics is a lie, while the ability to change the molecular content of water and turn it into wine is a perfectly acceptable, believable notion.
My question is why are so many Christians so willing to accept the insane (speaking, burning bushes, talking donkeys, the world populated by 2 people, 2 of every single animal ON THE PLANET on a boat (and more of some), the entire earth being covered in water (an impossibility), and the resurrection of people dead for days, etc), yet not be able to accept science which can be studied, measured, and documented. I had someone ask me the other day "If evolution is real, why isn't it happening today?"
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This was exactly the kind of thing that I heard for 30 years in church. "Facts" spit out by preachers, and my willingness to ignore my common sense made me take it at face value. I didn't care where he got his information. I never thought to look it up. I just believed, because I was told to.
I responded "First off, evolution is a slow process. It takes generations to show and is not something easily measured in the course of 1 lifetime. (I know there are exceptions to this, especially with many short-lived species, but this would be way too much for him). Second, it is still happening. It happens every day around us. Fish whose lakes have begun to dry up have begun using their air bladders as lungs to allow them to flop from puddle to puddle. Monkeys have been seen breaking off branches, sharpening them, and using them as primitive spears. (I'll find sources for these later)"
I stopped at this point because I could see his eyes glazing over and his Anti-Logic curtain falling nicely over his mind. I knew exactly what was happening inside his head, since it happened to me for so long. He was hearing the facts, and telling himself that they were wrong. Deep, DEEP inside he felt that there might be something to what I was saying, but his faith was telling him to shut me out and ignore me.
It's sad that too many fundamentalists don't have the desire, intelligence, or courage to challenge their own beliefs. (Note that I'm not saying they're all dumb. Some are. Some REALLY are. But not all are.) If you can challenge everything you believe, REALLY study, then still come out with some belief then you have something. Otherwise you are just a sheep.
===========================================
On the other side of the same coin you get all the time "Well Hitler was an atheist and look how horrible he was!" Ignoring completely that you can't judge an entire group of people by the actions of one person, we'll get into why Hitler was indeed a very devout Roman Catholic:
This is just a quickie list of some quotes, but I'll get into his philosophies and religious behaviors later:
"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator”
“Who says I am not under the special protection of God?”
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: - by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”
And how, as a good Christian, do you delude a country into committing horrendous acts against his fellow man? Well, let's just see:
“How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.”
- How often do you see religious fanatics go blank and ignore reality and open thinking, no matter how common-sense it is?
“It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.”
- Which is why he won them over with faith. This is why science has spent ages fighting religion for the most basic, provable theories.
“The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.”
- Just ask the Catholic church!
“Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.”
- This shows just how intelligent and manipulative he really was. He knew that if you take a horrendous idea and couch it in a religious purpose then people will jump in both feet first. Actions that would normally horrify them suddenly feel 'right' and 'just'. Suddenly they KNOW that what they are doing is right, because they are doing it for their god.
Also, who can really fathom the torture a heaven would be were you spent AN ETERNITY doing nothing more than singing praises to god? Most people get bored after being in church for an hour.
“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”
- This is why churches make billions every year, while children all over the world starve and work 14 hour days in sweat shops.
“The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.”
- Look at the Bible. It is full of thousands of contradictions, falsehoods, and just plain dumb shit. Yet the world is more likely to believe that every single letter is inspired be God himself rather than believe that possibly this insanely contradictory, cruel, and vicious book is just a collection of really cool stories based on other mythologies.
“The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.”
- One Category: Athiests, homosexuals, adulterers, smokers, drinkers, murderers, women needing abortions, heretics, and pretty much ANYONE not a Christian. They're all evil.
“Hate is more lasting than dislike”
- Which is why the bible spreads hate against those that it finds unsuitable, rather than just mild dislike or forgiveness. Or how about a better idea? How about just ignore them all. Live your own lives, and let them live theirs?
“Great liars are also great magicians”
“Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice”
- Though many christians would say this is horrible, cruel, and not a christian standard, many still behave this way. The words say one thing, but their actions say another.
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
- And this is exactly why Catholicism is the 'right' religion, while its competitors at the time (Wicca and such) are now seen as diabolical and evil. Catholicism had money. The others did not.
--------------------
Okay there, it's all said now. So now you can quit telling me that Einstein was Christian, so I should believe him. You can stop telling me that Hitler was an athiest, and look at the horrible things he did. You can stop comparing just how amazingly ignorant you are when YOU confront ME by comparing yourself to other people, and by comparing me to others.
Please, for the love of god (any of them), stop.
Okay, it seems like one of the first things I seem to get when discussing religion with people is "Einstein was Christian. Do you think you are smarter than him?" Just because someone uses the word "God", does not mean that they are a Christian.
This is what is called "Quote Mining." That is when someone digs through random quotes, pulls them out of context, and says "See, they believe what I say they believe!" It's silly, juvenile, and the exact opposite of true research.
Famous misunderstood Einstein quotes:
"I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
"God is subtle but he is not malicious."
Okay, with the two quotes above it is easy to see how the uninformed and the unread could easily think that he was a Christian. But, as most of us non-Christians have found, the average fundamental Christian is practically a pro of pulling quotations out of context. Here are a few more quotes that show the true depth of Einstein's beliefs:
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein who had sent Einstein a cablegram demanding "Do you believe in God?"
Make everything as simple as possible but not simpler. (*This is also known as Occum's Razor, which will get a topic all its own.)
-- Albert Einstein (attributed: source unknown)
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)
I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion.
-- Albert Einstein (attributed: source unknown)
Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray. Source: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It
I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet.
-- Albert Einstein, letter, 1954
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
So, I hope this clears some stuff up. It's easy to see that he may possibly have been Agnostic. Meaning that he believed it was POSSIBLE that there was a God, but also that it was possible there was not. But he was by NO MEANS a Christian, or believed that Christ was the Son of God.
Which brings us to the most important thing we can take from this: Why do many religious fanatics feel that science and faith in a god are two concepts completely unable to coexist? Science should be embraced as the path to god, not the path away. If you are (like me) completely breathless and in awe of the magnitude of the universe, then you may also (like me) believe that there is a god. And everything you read, study, and learn from the next advance in science only reassures that belief.
But religion, for all its benefits, tends to be ridiculous. It tends to preach ignoring the scientific for the mystic. It tells you that quantum physics is a lie, while the ability to change the molecular content of water and turn it into wine is a perfectly acceptable, believable notion.
My question is why are so many Christians so willing to accept the insane (speaking, burning bushes, talking donkeys, the world populated by 2 people, 2 of every single animal ON THE PLANET on a boat (and more of some), the entire earth being covered in water (an impossibility), and the resurrection of people dead for days, etc), yet not be able to accept science which can be studied, measured, and documented. I had someone ask me the other day "If evolution is real, why isn't it happening today?"
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This was exactly the kind of thing that I heard for 30 years in church. "Facts" spit out by preachers, and my willingness to ignore my common sense made me take it at face value. I didn't care where he got his information. I never thought to look it up. I just believed, because I was told to.
I responded "First off, evolution is a slow process. It takes generations to show and is not something easily measured in the course of 1 lifetime. (I know there are exceptions to this, especially with many short-lived species, but this would be way too much for him). Second, it is still happening. It happens every day around us. Fish whose lakes have begun to dry up have begun using their air bladders as lungs to allow them to flop from puddle to puddle. Monkeys have been seen breaking off branches, sharpening them, and using them as primitive spears. (I'll find sources for these later)"
I stopped at this point because I could see his eyes glazing over and his Anti-Logic curtain falling nicely over his mind. I knew exactly what was happening inside his head, since it happened to me for so long. He was hearing the facts, and telling himself that they were wrong. Deep, DEEP inside he felt that there might be something to what I was saying, but his faith was telling him to shut me out and ignore me.
It's sad that too many fundamentalists don't have the desire, intelligence, or courage to challenge their own beliefs. (Note that I'm not saying they're all dumb. Some are. Some REALLY are. But not all are.) If you can challenge everything you believe, REALLY study, then still come out with some belief then you have something. Otherwise you are just a sheep.
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On the other side of the same coin you get all the time "Well Hitler was an atheist and look how horrible he was!" Ignoring completely that you can't judge an entire group of people by the actions of one person, we'll get into why Hitler was indeed a very devout Roman Catholic:
This is just a quickie list of some quotes, but I'll get into his philosophies and religious behaviors later:
"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator”
“Who says I am not under the special protection of God?”
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: - by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”
And how, as a good Christian, do you delude a country into committing horrendous acts against his fellow man? Well, let's just see:
“How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.”
- How often do you see religious fanatics go blank and ignore reality and open thinking, no matter how common-sense it is?
“It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.”
- Which is why he won them over with faith. This is why science has spent ages fighting religion for the most basic, provable theories.
“The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.”
- Just ask the Catholic church!
“Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.”
- This shows just how intelligent and manipulative he really was. He knew that if you take a horrendous idea and couch it in a religious purpose then people will jump in both feet first. Actions that would normally horrify them suddenly feel 'right' and 'just'. Suddenly they KNOW that what they are doing is right, because they are doing it for their god.
Also, who can really fathom the torture a heaven would be were you spent AN ETERNITY doing nothing more than singing praises to god? Most people get bored after being in church for an hour.
“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”
- This is why churches make billions every year, while children all over the world starve and work 14 hour days in sweat shops.
“The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.”
- Look at the Bible. It is full of thousands of contradictions, falsehoods, and just plain dumb shit. Yet the world is more likely to believe that every single letter is inspired be God himself rather than believe that possibly this insanely contradictory, cruel, and vicious book is just a collection of really cool stories based on other mythologies.
“The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.”
- One Category: Athiests, homosexuals, adulterers, smokers, drinkers, murderers, women needing abortions, heretics, and pretty much ANYONE not a Christian. They're all evil.
“Hate is more lasting than dislike”
- Which is why the bible spreads hate against those that it finds unsuitable, rather than just mild dislike or forgiveness. Or how about a better idea? How about just ignore them all. Live your own lives, and let them live theirs?
“Great liars are also great magicians”
“Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice”
- Though many christians would say this is horrible, cruel, and not a christian standard, many still behave this way. The words say one thing, but their actions say another.
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
- And this is exactly why Catholicism is the 'right' religion, while its competitors at the time (Wicca and such) are now seen as diabolical and evil. Catholicism had money. The others did not.
--------------------
Okay there, it's all said now. So now you can quit telling me that Einstein was Christian, so I should believe him. You can stop telling me that Hitler was an athiest, and look at the horrible things he did. You can stop comparing just how amazingly ignorant you are when YOU confront ME by comparing yourself to other people, and by comparing me to others.
Please, for the love of god (any of them), stop.
Myth: Finely Tuned Universe
Okay, for today's lesson we are doing to discuss the myth of the finely tuned universe. Here is a good article from the Apologetics Press showing the religious side of why there MUST be a creator, since the universe is so 'finely tuned.'
For those that don't feel like reading the whole thing, here is the basic synopsis: There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the universe is 'finely tuned.' The phrase 'finely tuned' meaning that the PRECISE conditions exist for life. If any one thing was off by the slightest little amount, then life could not happen. For instance; your computer is finely tuned. It needs virtually every part to be in perfect running order and working together perfectly or it just won't function. Therefore the computer MUST have a creator to have made it so finely tuned. We would have to be insane to think that all the elements that compose a computer could come together naturally to create a perfectly operating computer. (Unless it's a Dell, in which case two rocks banging together would pretty much serve the same purpose.)
For those of you with any sort of experience in proving theorems, I'm sure you've already seen a million holes in that idea. Let's start with the biggest fallacy:
1. If I can do it, there must be a god.
Humans make computers. Humans make cars. Computers and cars are complicated, so therefore anything more complicated than a computer and a car must be made by something more powerful than a human.
This fallacy is silly. It's a complete reversal of logic. The fact that we can create something complicated does not mean that there is something else more complicated than us. Let's use a for instance;
"Ah," you say, "but the miracle of life is driven by god. If it weren't for him then the embryo could never have developed in the first place."
No.
This is not the case. Any chemical reaction that we are able to control and reproduce puts the ability in our hands. If the miracle of life was run only by a higher being, then there would be no way for us to alter the process, interrupt the process, or destroy the process. There would also be no mistakes (i.e. birth defects, absorbed fetuses, still born babies, etc). I know, I know - it's god's will. That is a discussion for another topic.
2. How do we KNOW the universe is finely tuned?
One of the most BASIC scientific tenets is that to truly observe something fully, you have to place yourself outside of that thing's influence. You have to be outside of it. As of such, to us it seems that the universe is fine tuned, but we have no other point of reference.
How about another 'what if'?
It's easy to say something is ordered and finely-tuned when we've never seen anything else to compare it to.
3. But the earth is positioned EXACTLY where it needs to be to support life! And the moon is EXACTLY where it needs to be to help support life here!
Yes indeed. And if we had developed as gas creatures in Jupiter's atmosphere then we would say that Jupiter was EXACTLY where it needed to be to support life. If we had developed as subterranean creatures in Mars' crust we would have said that it was EXACTLY where it needed to be to support life.
The fact that the Earth supports life does not mean that is what it was created for. The conditions on Earth are perfect for OUR LIFE. OUR EXISTENCE. But who's to say that's the only existence there is? Who's to say that there aren't beings out there who's development and evolution took such a widely different path that they are nothing that we can conceive of as being 'alive'. They would see our world as a useless world, not even capable of supporting even the most basic forms of life.
Again, it's easy to say that our world is 'perfect' for supporting life when we have only one frame of reference.
4. But even with that being said, our planet IS perfect for supporting life. That means that it was created for the purpose of supporting life. Therefore the universe is finely tuned else life could not exist at all!
Okay, at this point I can see you're getting frantic. Hey, don't get angry at me! I'm not the one with the silly 'finely tuned universe' theory. But let's continue.
So now we come to the crux of it all. Is the universe REALLY finely tuned? What does it mean to be finely tuned?
For something to be finely tuned, that would mean it was created and manipulated in such a way that a certain goal had to be accomplished. You wouldn't fine tune something with no purpose to the fine tuning. Therefore if the universe supports life, then it must obviously be fine tuned for life. The universe must be finely tuned for life, because it supports life.
The first problem with this is that it is INCREDIBLY egotistical. On a literally galactic scale. "We are here, therefore everything we see was created for US. There's no other purpose to anything if it wasn't created for us." It's the most modern version of the Ptolemaic Theory. Once again we have found a way to make the universe revolve around us.
The second, and perhaps biggest problem of this theory is that the universe is so obviously not fine tuned for life. It is theorized (since it's impossible to give an accurate number - although in this case we're splitting hairs with an exact amount) that there are approximately 200,000,000 stars in the Milky Way alone. This is a generally accepted estimate. Now of those stars it is estimated that the Milky Way has approximately 130 planets that could support life as we know it on Earth.
So what does that tell us? Let's do the math on it and see for ourselves:
130/200,000,000 = 6.5e-7
That means there is approximately .00000065 solar systems (providing I didn't screw up that equation) that even have the possibility of life existing on them. And there is no proof at all that of these life is definite!
So even if there was intelligent life on every single planet in every single solar system of our entire galaxy capable of supporting it, there are an IMMENSE amount of solar systems not even remotely capable of supporting life in any fashion we'd know of.
To put this into perspective: Let's say you were suddenly given 1,538,462 cars. You now are the proud owner of 1.5 MILLION cars. Of those vehicles 1 single car works. Would you now say that the factory that produced these vehicles is a very finely tuned factory? Anything that can produce that many cars, and have 1 single one capable of working is so far away from fine tuned that it would be insane to think it otherwise.
Now imagine you find that one car and there is someone sitting inside, listening to some DC Talk, and you knock on the window. When he opens up you ask him what he thinks, waving your arm at all the millions of cars around you. He smiles and says "This car is PROOF that the factory is finely tuned, and you'd be insane to think otherwise." Not only that but when you tell him that the car doesn't indeed belong to him, it belongs to someone else (in this case you) he says that you are crazy. After all, if the car works, and he is sitting in it, then it MUST have been designed for him. Why else would he be in it?
For some very interesting reading make sure to take a look at The Drake Equation.
Conclusion:
Am I saying that this is proof that there is no god? No. What I AM saying is that if you want to use the Finely Tuned Universe theory then you'd better come up with something better. For although this is not proof against a god, it is most certainly NOT proof of one.
Some other articles on the Finely Tuned Universe theory:
Non-Supportive:
The Anthropic Principle Does Not Support Supernaturalism by Michael Ikeda and Bill Jefferys
Is the Universe Fine Tuned For us? Victor J. Stenger
Supportive:
Skeptical Christian: Dawkin's Central Arguement
So Finely Tuned a Universe of Atoms, Stars, Quanta, and God.
For those that don't feel like reading the whole thing, here is the basic synopsis: There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the universe is 'finely tuned.' The phrase 'finely tuned' meaning that the PRECISE conditions exist for life. If any one thing was off by the slightest little amount, then life could not happen. For instance; your computer is finely tuned. It needs virtually every part to be in perfect running order and working together perfectly or it just won't function. Therefore the computer MUST have a creator to have made it so finely tuned. We would have to be insane to think that all the elements that compose a computer could come together naturally to create a perfectly operating computer. (Unless it's a Dell, in which case two rocks banging together would pretty much serve the same purpose.)
For those of you with any sort of experience in proving theorems, I'm sure you've already seen a million holes in that idea. Let's start with the biggest fallacy:
1. If I can do it, there must be a god.
Humans make computers. Humans make cars. Computers and cars are complicated, so therefore anything more complicated than a computer and a car must be made by something more powerful than a human.
This fallacy is silly. It's a complete reversal of logic. The fact that we can create something complicated does not mean that there is something else more complicated than us. Let's use a for instance;
- Let's say you have created a human baby in a test tube. Although this is something illegal, it is not by any means outside of our technological ability. Once the baby has been created, molded, perfected, and eventually implanted and grown into a full human we will have to sit him down and have a conversation with him. We will have to explain to him that because we humans created him, then therefore we are more intelligent, more powerful, and more divine than he is. He will not be able to refute this because WE ARE HIS CREATORS.
"Ah," you say, "but the miracle of life is driven by god. If it weren't for him then the embryo could never have developed in the first place."
No.
This is not the case. Any chemical reaction that we are able to control and reproduce puts the ability in our hands. If the miracle of life was run only by a higher being, then there would be no way for us to alter the process, interrupt the process, or destroy the process. There would also be no mistakes (i.e. birth defects, absorbed fetuses, still born babies, etc). I know, I know - it's god's will. That is a discussion for another topic.
2. How do we KNOW the universe is finely tuned?
One of the most BASIC scientific tenets is that to truly observe something fully, you have to place yourself outside of that thing's influence. You have to be outside of it. As of such, to us it seems that the universe is fine tuned, but we have no other point of reference.
How about another 'what if'?
- There is a young woman in some imaginary tribe somewhere. This woman at puberty had a forced clitoral circumcision, then immediately afterwards she was forced to engage in sex. Afterwards she was used as currency, passed around whenever one of the males needed to purchase something. After one of the males 'purchased' her and did not make good on his end she was considered tainted currency, and she was forced out of the tribe to live on her own in the wilds.
In her mind she knows that this is 'right'. She knows that this is the very best life can offer. She has no concept of a world outside her own, and therefore to her the world she lives in is very 'just' and 'fair'. Because her point of reference is based solely on what she has seen with her own experience, there is nothing to tell her that this is not how it is everywhere.
It's easy to say something is ordered and finely-tuned when we've never seen anything else to compare it to.
3. But the earth is positioned EXACTLY where it needs to be to support life! And the moon is EXACTLY where it needs to be to help support life here!
Yes indeed. And if we had developed as gas creatures in Jupiter's atmosphere then we would say that Jupiter was EXACTLY where it needed to be to support life. If we had developed as subterranean creatures in Mars' crust we would have said that it was EXACTLY where it needed to be to support life.
The fact that the Earth supports life does not mean that is what it was created for. The conditions on Earth are perfect for OUR LIFE. OUR EXISTENCE. But who's to say that's the only existence there is? Who's to say that there aren't beings out there who's development and evolution took such a widely different path that they are nothing that we can conceive of as being 'alive'. They would see our world as a useless world, not even capable of supporting even the most basic forms of life.
Again, it's easy to say that our world is 'perfect' for supporting life when we have only one frame of reference.
4. But even with that being said, our planet IS perfect for supporting life. That means that it was created for the purpose of supporting life. Therefore the universe is finely tuned else life could not exist at all!
Okay, at this point I can see you're getting frantic. Hey, don't get angry at me! I'm not the one with the silly 'finely tuned universe' theory. But let's continue.
So now we come to the crux of it all. Is the universe REALLY finely tuned? What does it mean to be finely tuned?
For something to be finely tuned, that would mean it was created and manipulated in such a way that a certain goal had to be accomplished. You wouldn't fine tune something with no purpose to the fine tuning. Therefore if the universe supports life, then it must obviously be fine tuned for life. The universe must be finely tuned for life, because it supports life.
The first problem with this is that it is INCREDIBLY egotistical. On a literally galactic scale. "We are here, therefore everything we see was created for US. There's no other purpose to anything if it wasn't created for us." It's the most modern version of the Ptolemaic Theory. Once again we have found a way to make the universe revolve around us.
The second, and perhaps biggest problem of this theory is that the universe is so obviously not fine tuned for life. It is theorized (since it's impossible to give an accurate number - although in this case we're splitting hairs with an exact amount) that there are approximately 200,000,000 stars in the Milky Way alone. This is a generally accepted estimate. Now of those stars it is estimated that the Milky Way has approximately 130 planets that could support life as we know it on Earth.
So what does that tell us? Let's do the math on it and see for ourselves:
130/200,000,000 = 6.5e-7
That means there is approximately .00000065 solar systems (providing I didn't screw up that equation) that even have the possibility of life existing on them. And there is no proof at all that of these life is definite!
So even if there was intelligent life on every single planet in every single solar system of our entire galaxy capable of supporting it, there are an IMMENSE amount of solar systems not even remotely capable of supporting life in any fashion we'd know of.
To put this into perspective: Let's say you were suddenly given 1,538,462 cars. You now are the proud owner of 1.5 MILLION cars. Of those vehicles 1 single car works. Would you now say that the factory that produced these vehicles is a very finely tuned factory? Anything that can produce that many cars, and have 1 single one capable of working is so far away from fine tuned that it would be insane to think it otherwise.
Now imagine you find that one car and there is someone sitting inside, listening to some DC Talk, and you knock on the window. When he opens up you ask him what he thinks, waving your arm at all the millions of cars around you. He smiles and says "This car is PROOF that the factory is finely tuned, and you'd be insane to think otherwise." Not only that but when you tell him that the car doesn't indeed belong to him, it belongs to someone else (in this case you) he says that you are crazy. After all, if the car works, and he is sitting in it, then it MUST have been designed for him. Why else would he be in it?
For some very interesting reading make sure to take a look at The Drake Equation.
Conclusion:
Am I saying that this is proof that there is no god? No. What I AM saying is that if you want to use the Finely Tuned Universe theory then you'd better come up with something better. For although this is not proof against a god, it is most certainly NOT proof of one.
Some other articles on the Finely Tuned Universe theory:
Non-Supportive:
The Anthropic Principle Does Not Support Supernaturalism by Michael Ikeda and Bill Jefferys
Is the Universe Fine Tuned For us? Victor J. Stenger
Supportive:
Skeptical Christian: Dawkin's Central Arguement
So Finely Tuned a Universe of Atoms, Stars, Quanta, and God.
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